Signs for Hatfield House Lawn Area

[Maria Elizabeth Prior]

I have been asked to advise residents here that there has finally been an agreement to put up signs at the above area, making it clear that it is for the use of residents, and not the general public.
Suggestions will be put to the Committee for any appropriate wording.  Also, if anyone has any ideas as to what would be suitable, I would like to hear them.

Mr Jacks has advised that the wording needs to be kept as short as possible.  The original suggestion from the Office was to say, "Private Property.  Keep of the Grass".  However, I felt this would not cover the adjoining concrete area, which the public also use excessively. 

Many thanks!

[Jax]

More signs...Why ?

[Maria Elizabeth Prior]

Hi Jacqui

The reason this needs to be done for this area is because many non residents are using the area as a 'public park', particularly during lunch times, so us residents find that we are not able to enjoy the area at these times.  This is a private estate, and this area is meant for residents only.  Unfortunately, many do not respect this, hence the reason why signs are needed.  I know that we would not like to have too many signs around the Estate, but, there seems no other option, as the situation is getting worse.  Apart from the litter bins being overfilled, there is sometimes litter left behind by these people.  Also, today, several non residents turned up with their bikes, and some are now playing bat and ball games. 

Many residents are fed up with this, quite rightly.  If you could think of a solution without the need for signs, I would like to hear if you have any other ideas.

[15 storeys high]

have the signs been approved by the listed building people ? who is going to make sure people on the grass are not allowed there and why? what are the rules about this private estate because i have lived here for years and have never seen any?

[Maria Elizabeth Prior]

Hi 15 storeys high.

In answer to your questions, firstly, providing the signs are of a certain size, LBC will not be required.  If people who are not residents use the area, the Police will have the power to ask them to move, as will Estate staff. The reason why, is as stated above, in that this is a private Estate, and such areas are meant for the sole use of residents.  There are several notices around the estate that clearly cite it as a 'Private Estate'. 

On other areas, for example, Basterfield House lawn, this area is locked, and only Estate residents can use it.  Other lawn areas around the Estate are also for the use of residents. 

Many people, especially those who reside by the Hatfield House lawn, are very unhappy over the fact that for so long non residents have used the area as a 'park'!  I can only say that it is great news that, at last, we will be able to 'reclaim' the area, that we, as residents pay for the upkeep of. 

I hope that answers your questions.

[Maria Elizabeth Prior]

Hi Roland

I certainly take your point about signs, but am afraid there is no other alternative.  This is because we have been informed that the Estate staff will be 'too busy' to be able to monitor this.  If any non residents ignore the signs, then the Police will move them on. As you may know we have the regular non residents, who use the area as a park, and you are so right in what you say about them.  Couldn't put it better myself!

The signs have been approved by the GLRA.  I am afraid I don't know what else we can possibly do to resolve the problem, considering that the Estate staff will be unable to help here. 

[Maria Elizabeth Prior]

Have been informed today by Bob Jacks, that the order for the Hatfield House signs has now gone ahead.  I understand that they will read something like, ' Private Property.  For Residents' Use Only'. 

Most people want this area, and all grass areas on Golden Lane Estate, to be for the sole use of residents only, particularly as we pay for the upkeep in our service charges.  Unlike Basterfield House lawn, for example, Hatfield House lawn cannot be locked up.  Nobody wants more signs on the Estate.  However, there appears no other alternative.  It is very frustrating that non residents have 'abused' this area in the first place.  I would have thought that the notices saying, 'This is a Private Estate', would have been enough of a hint!  Not so!  Please check out the Comments Book in the Estate Office, where it is clearly shown how much of a problem this issue has been. 

Of course, some will ignore the signs, as we realise.  However, our City of London Police will have the power to enforce it.  Hopefully, most will get the message! 

[Michael Bojkowski]

Not more ugly signs that no-one takes any notice of and make the place look like we've got serious crime problems. Making sure people clean up after themselves is the answer not blocking them out completely. It is a right of way.

[Michael Bojkowski]

I'm not sure 'most' residents are in favour of this. That's a bit fo an assumption. The mess and litter is the issue here not the people. If you look at the Basterfield Lawn only a tiny percentage of residents actually use it. The busier these areas are the less chance you'll get kids loitering around thinking the place is derelict.

Maria Elizabeth Prior said:

Have been informed today by Bob Jacks, that the order for the Hatfield House signs has now gone ahead.  I understand that they will read something like, ' Private Property.  For Residents' Use Only'. 

Most people want this area, and all grass areas on Golden Lane Estate, to be for the sole use of residents only, particularly as we pay for the upkeep in our service charges.  Unlike Basterfield House lawn, for example, Hatfield House lawn cannot be locked up.  Nobody wants more signs on the Estate.  However, there appears no other alternative.  It is very frustrating that non residents have 'abused' this area in the first place.  I would have thought that the notices saying, 'This is a Private Estate', would have been enough of a hint!  Not so!  Please check out the Comments Book in the Estate Office, where it is clearly shown how much of a problem this issue has been. 

Of course, some will ignore the signs, as we realise.  However, our City of London Police will have the power to enforce it.  Hopefully, most will get the message! 

[Paul Lincoln]

I agree with this. There are far too many signs on the estate already - and I doubt if anyone reads them. And what's wrong with people sitting on the grass.  Sitting on the grass is a good thing to encourage.  Green spaces are for people to sit and chat, to eat their lunch.  I sit on the grass near where I work, why shouldn't people sit on the grass when they work near Golden Lane.

[Maria Elizabeth Prior]

Hi Paul

Am sorry to hear this attitude.  Do you live in Hatfield House, or Crescent, whose residents are directly affected by the constant use of non residents using this area, particularly at lunchtimes?  I can assure you that many residents support the idea that, as we pay for the upkeep of this lawn in our service charges, we should have the right to use it when we like.  This is a private Estate.  If you think that the general public should have the right to overtake the area like this, then I presume that you think they should also have the right to use all the green areas on the Estate.  Perhaps you should suggest that Basterfield House lawn now be  kept unlocked so that the general public can use that too!  I doubt the Basterfield House residents would like that, and I wouldn't blame them!

As for people ignoring the signs, you have a point.  However, the Estate office, and police will be able to move them on.  We are not so much concerned about the odd people, but this lawn is overtaken by regular large groups of people, bringing masses of picnic food, and playing bat and ball games etc!  Not to mention the excess litter left behind, that increases the workload of the Estate staff, whose wages we pay for! 

I agree with this. There are far too many signs on the estate already - and I doubt if anyone reads them. And what's wrong with people sitting on the grass.  Sitting on the grass is a good thing to encourage.  Green spaces are for people to sit and chat, to eat their lunch.  I sit on the grass near where I work, why shouldn't people sit on the grass when they work near Golden Lane.

[Maria Elizabeth Prior]

Hi Michael.  Yes, the Estate is a right of way, but that exactly means that!  A right to pass through, and keep going!  Also, even if all these non residents put their litter in the bins, because so many people who don't live here use this lawn, there is still the problem of too much litter in the bins!  And, who is going to make sure they 'clean up after themselves'?  Do you live in this area?  perhaps you are not aware just how serious the problem has become.
Michael Bojkowski said:

Not more ugly signs that no-one takes any notice of and make the place look like we've got serious crime problems. Making sure people clean up after themselves is the answer not blocking them out completely. It is a right of way.

[15 storeys high]

the question about the rules of this being a private estate remain unanswered what are they ?

Maria Elizabeth Prior said:

Hi 15 storeys high.

In answer to your questions, firstly, providing the signs are of a certain size, LBC will not be required.  If people who are not residents use the area, the Police will have the power to ask them to move, as will Estate staff. The reason why, is as stated above, in that this is a private Estate, and such areas are meant for the sole use of residents.  There are several notices around the estate that clearly cite it as a 'Private Estate'. 

On other areas, for example, Basterfield House lawn, this area is locked, and only Estate residents can use it.  Other lawn areas around the Estate are also for the use of residents. 

Many people, especially those who reside by the Hatfield House lawn, are very unhappy over the fact that for so long non residents have used the area as a 'park'!  I can only say that it is great news that, at last, we will be able to 'reclaim' the area, that we, as residents pay for the upkeep of. 

I hope that answers your questions.