Dangers of u-turning vehicles on Fann Street

[Lee Bailey]

Hi all. I am new to this forum and after a quick search have not found any threads on the dangerous situation created by u-turning taxis/minicabs/Ubers on Fann Street. (I saw one on the dangers of crossing Goswell Road, which is an important but slightly different issue.) Does someone know the history of efforts to install a zebra crossing from the north to south side of Fann Street, between the Shakespeare and Blake Tower? I paste below my recent correspondence with the City on this. I was really surprised to be told that there was no residents' support for such a crossing when last it was discussed. 

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On Wed, Nov 1, 2017 at 9:41 AM, Lee Bailey wrote:
Dear Albert,

Thank you for your reply. Can you please tell me where the signage prohibiting U-turns is? I can only see signs indicating that Fann Street is a dead-end. I am frankly surprised to hear that U-turning is prohibited and that this prohibition is enforced, because in the average 90 seconds a day I spend around this junction, I observe 3-4 vehicles executing turns. That leads me to believe that this dangerous pattern repeats itself hundreds of times a day.

When you say that no resident supported the proposal, can you explain how that process works? I would certainly support such a proposal. Where was it publicized?

Also, what is a pedestrian refuge facility and how would such a thing on the west side of Goswell Road protect pedestrians crossing through U-turning vehicles at Fann Street, which is on the east side of the road?

Thank you for your patience and explanations. 

Lee Bailey

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 10:30 AM, Transportation, City <[e-mail]> wrote:
Dear Mr Bailey,

Thank you for contacting the City of London regarding crossing conditions on Goswell Road.


I would like to confirm that vehicles are prohibited from U-turning on Goswell Road by the junction of Fann Street and there is appropriate signage to communicate this restriction to drivers. Our mobile CCTV enforcement team do regularly enforce this location.

In 2015, improving pedestrian crossing facilities on Goswell Road was investigated and a crossing facility was proposed immediately north of Fann Street. However, this was not supported by a local resident and therefore the scheme was not progressed. Following this we introduced a pedestrian refuge facility outside No.25 Goswell Road by the newsagent.

I hope the above information is useful.

Many thanks

Albert
City Transportation



From: Lee Bailey
Sent: 10 October 2017 17:40
To: Streets Queue
Subject: Re: Dangerous crossing: Fann Street and Goswell Road

Hello,

I never received a reply to this inquiry. I was just nearly smashed by a black cab executing a high speed U-turn, and so was reminded of my attempt to reach you. Please advise.

Many thanks,

Lee Bailey


On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 12:28 PM, Lee Bailey wrote:
As a resident of the Golden Lane Estate, I would like to make a complaint about the use of the junction at Fann Street and Goswell Road by cabbies, mini-cab drivers and Uber drivers as a U-turn facility. This makes crossing Fann Street very dangerous-- half the time you expect a car to move on through, it cuts toward you in an about-face. Has there ever been a proposal to put a zebra crossing there?

Many thanks,

Lee Bailey

[Lee Bailey]

Upon re-reading the email from the City, I see now he was talking about a crossing on Goswell Road (which was not the subject of my messages to the City). Does anyone know if a crossing was ever proposed on Fann Street?

[Charles Humphries]

Hi Lee, Are these vehicles coming South down Aldersgate Street (from Old Street) and making a U-turn to go back North?

I'm not sure that I've seen zebra crossings used on corners like that. But in Islington they do often widen the pavement at the crossing to narrow the roadway. It must have a technical term. Here's an example on Lofting Road.

[Lee Bailey]

Thanks Charles. They do it in both directions-- and I know that junction in Barnsbury and now understand it looks the way it does. :)

By way of update, I received this from the council:

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Tomlinson CC, John <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, Nov 1, 2017 at 6:21 PM
Subject: RE: Dangerous crossing: Fann Street and Goswell Road COL:05090892
To: Lee Bailey <[e-mail]>, "Transportation, City" <[e-mail]>, "Cheung, Albert" <[e-mail]>
Cc: "Durcan, Mary" <[e-mail]>, "Presland, Steve" <[e-mail]>, "Tomlinson , John" <[e-mail]>

Dear Lee,

I am very sorry you and others have been facing this dangerous situation, but I believe I have an explanation and, perhaps, some (relatively) good news!

I think that the problem you mention is not the exactly same as the one Albert ?Cheung? is answering!

I believe you were complaining about cars U turning within Fann Street having entered from Goswell Road. He is apparently referring to a prohibition on U- turning on Goswell Road at its junction with Fann Street. As you say there appears to be no prohibition to the former which is dangerous- particularly at speed.

This u- turning has become a huge problem because of the long existing road works (many months) at the junction of Beech Street, Long Lane and Aldersgate St. To deal with the likely consequent traffic chaos major diversions were put in place. These stopped eastbound traffic from central London using that junction and forced it on to Carthusian Street. More recently the northbound traffic was also stopped from right turning from Aldersgate Street to Beech Street. Thus, as a presumably unintended consequence, taxis and other vehicles wanting to head towards the Barbican or Finsbury Square and unwilling to go via Old Street, would perform the u-turn you have found so dangerous.

Miraculously the junction has been fully opened to traffic today! [Nothing to do with me, but almost certainly due to the Lord Mayors Show next weekend around which all the City’s roadworks appear to be planned!] Hopefully it will now be left alone for some time. So with luck the diversions should cease and the problem should be largely resolved.

However it will not go away altogether and I trust ‘City Transportation’ will consider the matter with a view to taking preemptive action- especially if and when similar diversions are planned in future.

Kind regards

John

PS please let us know if the improvement I expect does not arise.

[Charles Humphries]

That is a helpful reply from John Tomlinson. It looks like there would be scope to change the profile of the pavement there and maybe create what I think they call a "raised table" across the junction. The big sweep of the roadway pushes pedestrians to cross a little further down Fann Street and then they are not so visible to traffic (and vice versa).

[Dawn Frampton]

Hi all
I am so glad you raised this.
Can i just add to this discussion by saying that the u-turn issue is not just a problem On the corner by the Sheakespere pub but also further down along Fann Street bynTudor Rose. I live on the corner of Cuthbert Harrowing (by the slope leading down to the garages) and i couldnt physically count the amount of cars that daily turn around on this corner by the ramp. I have a feeling that sat navs do not take into account the fact that Fann Street is 'blocked off'. It has a constant flow of cars reversing to turn around. There is a dead end sign along with an 'elderly people' sign but it is no use being there, it really needs to be further along. But then that pushes the problem even more so towards the goswell road end.

The problems are made worse if the street is busy with cars by it being such a small crossing. Add to this delivery trucks/vans also doing the same and in particular the truck that delivers the linen for Fusion, it has made this corner particularly dangerous i believe. The linen company driver literally goes up on the pavement to do sometimes a 5 point turn if the street is busy. He has no care for the pedestrians either and i have seen people with prams stood waiting while he turns. I have reported the issue a number of times to the estate office purely because the hand rail (which has recently been fixed AGAIN after having been knocked off) gets damaged i know that i need to take it further up the chain in order for something to be done and taken seriously.

Thanks Dawn

[Lee Bailey]

I've seen the congestion you're talking about. Maybe raise this with [e-mail], who was attentive to my concerns last week?

Dawn Frampton said:

Hi all
I am so glad you raised this.
Can i just add to this discussion by saying that the u-turn issue is not just a problem On the corner by the Sheakespere pub but also further down along Fann Street bynTudor Rose. I live on the corner of Cuthbert Harrowing (by the slope leading down to the garages) and i couldnt physically count the amount of cars that daily turn around on this corner by the ramp. I have a feeling that sat navs do not take into account the fact that Fann Street is 'blocked off'. It has a constant flow of cars reversing to turn around. There is a dead end sign along with an 'elderly people' sign but it is no use being there, it really needs to be further along. But then that pushes the problem even more so towards the goswell road end.

The problems are made worse if the street is busy with cars by it being such a small crossing. Add to this delivery trucks/vans also doing the same and in particular the truck that delivers the linen for Fusion, it has made this corner particularly dangerous i believe. The linen company driver literally goes up on the pavement to do sometimes a 5 point turn if the street is busy. He has no care for the pedestrians either and i have seen people with prams stood waiting while he turns. I have reported the issue a number of times to the estate office purely because the hand rail (which has recently been fixed AGAIN after having been knocked off) gets damaged i know that i need to take it further up the chain in order for something to be done and taken seriously.

Thanks Dawn

[Charles Humphries]

I walked down to Barbican Station last night around 10pm and saw two black cabs making a U-turn in the entrance to Fann Street as you have described. I'd say its something the cabs have figured out and have got into the habit of.

[Lee Bailey]

Yep-- and at that hour, it's probably not a problem. But during the day it's quite dangerous.

(Speaking of danger, be careful on that walk to the Tube at night-- last week two guys on a moped tried to nick my phone. I prevailed but be vigilant!)

Charles Humphries said:

I walked down to Barbican Station last night around 10pm and saw two black cabs making a U-turn in the entrance to Fann Street as you have described. I'd say its something the cabs have figured out and have got into the habit of.

[Dawn Frampton]

Thanks i think i will also email City transportation that way i can send them the pics and videos of the Fusion linen truck in particular. The level of cars turning by the Sheakspere is ridiculous. I go up and down this end Fann street and constantly have to wait by the nature reserve while a vehicle is turning.

I have copied our councillor Sue Pearson in on my emails to the estate office so at least they are being logged by someone.

[Lee Bailey]

By way of update to this thread for those interested:

From: Lee Bailey a href="mailto:[e-mail]" target="_blank" rel="noopener">[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 2:49 PM
Subject: Re: Dangerous crossing: Fann Street and Goswell Road COL:05090892

To: john tomlinson a href="mailto:[e-mail]" target="_blank" rel="noopener">[e-mail]>
Cc: "Cheung, Albert" a href="mailto:[e-mail]" target="_blank" rel="noopener">[e-mail]>, "Durcan, Mary" a href="mailto:[e-mail]" target="_blank" rel="noopener">[e-mail]>, Hayward CC Christopher a href="mailto:[e-mail]" target="_blank" rel="noopener">[e-mail]>, "Presland, Steve" a href="mailto:[e-mail]" target="_blank" rel="noopener">[e-mail]>, "Tomlinson CC, John" a href="mailto:[e-mail]" target="_blank" rel="noopener">[e-mail]>, "Transportation, City" a href="mailto:[e-mail]" target="_blank" rel="noopener">[e-mail]>

Thanks John. 

Regarding Fann Street, perhaps the following will help illuminate the danger. I was home over lunch and so on the way back to work I paused at the junction to observe traffic. I filmed the following videos between 1345 and 1355. You will see that in that ten-minute period, nine vehicles used Fann street as a U-turn facility-- eight of them at the mouth of the street, and one a bit further down. Not a single vehicle in ten minutes turned into Fann Street to access properties in the street. You will also see that pedestrians are imperiled in many of the instances, with one driver repeatedly reversing toward an elderly woman using a Zimmer frame. Also using the junction are able-bodied pedestrians, cyclists, wheelchair users and parents with children in pushchairs. Not shown here are the frequent crossings of large groups of school children from the Barbican to Golden Lane and back for their PE classes. 

None of these incidents were particularly high-speed, but many drivers, particularly black cab drivers, do execute U-turns at speeds greater than those captured here. Also note that this was not at a rush hour period; use of Fann Street for U-turns is more frequent in the morning and evening rush.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6C7xQtb-DPU (2 taxis)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_SuGar4RS4 (2 taxis, 2 vans)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGTrtX5sF_E (1 car)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhou92JSa7k (1 van)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDya-Ssz-zI (1 taxi)

Thanks for your attention to this hazard. 

Lee

On Mon, Aug 20, 2018 at 3:22 PM, john tomlinson a href="mailto:[e-mail]" target="_blank" rel="noopener">[e-mail]> wrote:

Steve, Albert

1. FANN STREET

I had thought that at long last that proposals about the Fann Street turn were going through the system. However as I don't deal with this on a daily basis it may well be that I have the wrong end of the stick.

Am I right in thinking that you guys had finally concluded it would be possible to make a change to the arrangements on the Goswell Road eg by eliminating the no U turn requirement there, so as to make entry to Fann Street unnecessary? Presumably you need TfLs agreement for this?

Kind regards

John

On Mon, 20 Aug 2018 at 09:42, Lee Bailey a href="mailto:[e-mail]" target="_blank" rel="noopener">[e-mail]> wrote:

Dear all,

I write to follow up on this discussion from last year. I'm afraid that no lasting change has taken place and that dangerous U-turning is still the norm on Fann Street. Are there any active proposals to remedy this?

[nathan]

Vehicles come up Aldersgate street travelling north and u-turn after the central reservation back down Aldersgate street they come in and out of Fann street sometimes at speed while doing the u-turn and back into Aldersgate street and continue south on Aldersgate street. I am sure there is a road traffic sign exactly at that spot high on a post on the central reservation saying no u-turns.

[Lee Bailey]

There is indeed a “no U-turn” sign on Goswell Road— which is exactly why at least one driver a minute turns right into Fann Street and executes a U-turn there.